In this episode, Shabnum compares two books: The Doctor and the Saint - Caste, Race, and the Annihilation of Caste (the Debate Between B.R. Ambedkar and M.K. Gandhi) by Arundhati Roy, and The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander to get a deeper understanding of the way in which we can define caste. Shabnum is no expert in caste, nor someone who has personal experience with any of the issues highlighted, and wants to call that out upfront. This episode is Shabnum's journey through reading the two books mentioned, and sharing her learnings and personal opinions with her audiencel.